Comments for Bible Apologetics

Comment on Slavery In The Bible (2/5) by stucky

stucky — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 01:04:42 +0000

that is free ALL inhabitants in the year of Jubilee (Lev. 25:10)

Comment on Slavery In The Bible (2/5) by stucky

stucky — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 01:03:00 +0000

Can we be sure the command to free ALL inhabitants within the land (Leviticus 25:10) does not also apply to foreign slaves modifying and over-ruling the permission given later in the same chapter to keep foreign slaves ‘long-term and pass them on to one’s children (Leviticus 25:44-46)?

Comment on Slavery In The Bible (2/5) by craig

craig — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 12:21:54 +0000

I just came up with an analogy. Someday perhaps, future humans will all be vegans and they will look back at us meat eating omnivores as barbarians. Similarly, free citizens of Rome saw or owned slaves and gave it little thought. But they were probably appalled by abusive treatment of slaves especially in public. God gave clean animals not unclean for their eating enjoyment. God also gave them pagan slaves to mitigate life’s burdens but in a civilized manner. The Garden did not present the need for meat or slavery.

Comment on Slavery In The Bible (2/5) by craig

craig — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 10:41:49 +0000

So Hebrew enslavement of pagans, despite the restrictions, really is slavery.

Comment on Slavery In The Bible (2/5) by craig

craig — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:39:40 +0000

Nick, I’ve looked for something similar to the allowance of slavery. The forbidden fruit is not an apt analogy however because the fruit was forbidden so it makes sense that the pair suffered the consequences and so did/do we. But perpetual slavery was not forbidden. It was expressly allowed. Not chattel slavery was allowed we agree but slavery of a sort with lots of restrictions and protections but nevertheless slavery was allowed. I think partly God may see it (and He is God and has the prerogative) that pagans are slaves regardless of how much freedom they perceive for themselves. So perpetual slavery is not a major issue to him. It is interesting to consider the scenario where a pagan slave converts. Philemon seems to answer that along with Paul’s encouragement to be a good slave and remain in the condition you were in at salvation. Paul very subtly encourages Philemon to free Onesimus but slavery is not seen as in itself evil. Furthermore, Jesus was the Father’s slave it says in the NT.

Comment on Slavery In The Bible (2/5) by craig

craig — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:28:21 +0000

Also I don’t see a restriction against selling a pagan slave to another person. A Hebrew may not kidnap and enslave but he may acquire slaves from the pagan nations by purchase or spoils of war. But there seems to be no restriction against selling such a slave. there is the allowance to bequeath one’s slaves to one’s sons which is assumed to pass on to each generation keeping that slave in perpetual slavery without sabbatical or jubilee redemption.

Comment on Slavery In The Bible (2/5) by craig

craig — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:15:17 +0000

yes, that’s right. The problem remains that perpetual enslavement of pagans by Hebrews is perceived by atheists as a stain or indication that YAHWEH is not a just God or that there is no god at all. I don’t think that the ‘long term” definition of olam is the answer to this question. I think the answer is similar to the answer to “Why does your just God send people to Hell if He loves them?”

Comment on Slavery In The Bible (2/5) by Nick Curran

Nick Curran — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 02:17:10 +0000

New world slavery is chattel slavery the term “chattel” is the same as the term “cattle” which we use to label cows which we trade as commodities, work and eventually slaughter for our own consumption. New world chattel slavery was not practiced in the ancient world except for Egypt in relation to the Israelites and we know that God disapproved of that system strongly enough to intervene, just as William Wilberforce and John Brown would say that He did so through people like himself in order to end new world slavery.

And you’re right, the Philadelphia Convention of 1787 which declared blacks to be three fifths human and the Dredd Scott 1857 which essentially declared that African Americans do not have any rights that a white man need respect, described the slave in a manner that was far different and far less of a person than he/she was in the ancient world.

Comment on Slavery In The Bible (2/5) by Nick Curran

Nick Curran — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 02:09:01 +0000

I think also this, sure God allowed/s us to do a lot of things even sinful things, this is part of the “free will” concept. God however desires that we do right according to His will. It is us who are the sinners who from the time of Adam and Eve chose to disobey God in exchange for knowledge which we thought would make us like God. Clearly we tried and failed and have been doing so ever since. This is why Proverbs 3:5-6 tells us “lean not on your own understanding but trust in the Lord with all your heart.” We constantly sin against the Lord, we’re incorrigible and He tries to guide us through our own flawed systems and institutions, slavery, servitude, industrial manufacturing whatever.

I would conclude in response to such an unbeliever by saying that I don’t try to concern myself trying to understand the mind of Him who made me, the universe and all that is in it as that in and of itself constitutes madness as you’ll never get that level of comprehension. The concept of universal mysteries applies to the believer and non-believer alike which means there are going to be many subjects upon which you shall never get an answer to.

Comment on Slavery In The Bible (2/5) by craig

craig — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 23:37:54 +0000

Also New World slavery was based on the Declaration according to the Dred Scott decision and was written by a free thinker (Jefferson, Franklin, Adams) and the Constitution another free thinker Madison also allows it. Blame the extra Biblical sources for slavery in the US not the Bible